Before you scroll down, there may be some spoilers in the blog prompts. So you may want to wait until you finish each Volume before you look at them.
This last blog post will first ask you to read others blog posts and will be graded for completion and effort.
- Make three separate posts in this comment stream: "quote" from your someone else's post from Volume 2 and / or Volume 3. Explain what about her post was compelling and interesting, and then elaborate on what else it made you think of. Repeat this three times.
- Make two separate posts on what you would like to discuss in class on Monday and explain why. Your topic also needs to include a specific moment in the text.
Each of these separate posts should be 200- 300 words in length.
42 comments:
DISCUSSION TOPIC: 1
One thing that I definitely wanted to touch upon in class was Jane Eyre’s satisfaction in the end. I wanted to discuss the quote found on page 439, “I have now been married ten years. I know what it is to live entirely for and with what I love best on earth. I hold myself supremely blest - blest beyond what language can express; because I am my husband’s life as fully as he is mine”. When I read this, I felt as though Jane Eyre’s mission throughout the entire book was tarnished because she ends up settling down with Rochester. When I read this, I felt as though Jane did not get the full excitement and journey she hoped for. In the beginning, Jane was so filled with excitement and ambition, and I felt as though she wanted something more than just a quiet life with Rochester. I just find it confusing as to how Jane can be so happily married to Rochester, when she was looking for something more in the beginning. She wanted to get away from her boring life in Lowood, and find something more exciting. I just don't see how marrying Rochester would fulfill those dreams of hers. I think that marrying Rochester was Jane's way of settling for something that she couldn't quite find or have. I just wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way about her marriage with Rochester, or if you guys thought that her marriage with Rochester was something that Jane wanted all along. Do you think that she gave up some of her hopes and dreams in compensation for her marriage with Rochester?
DISCUSSION TOPIC: 2
There is a quote on page 409 that I feel demonstrates the importance of Christianity and God for Jane, "I could decide if I were but certain,' I answered: "Were I but convinced that it is God's will I should marry you, I could vow to marry you here and now - come afterwards what would!" When I read this quote, I felt as though Jane's only reason for marrying St. John was because she felt as though it was her will to marry him. In the paragraph before, St. John made it seem as though if Jane did not marry him, then she would be doomed, because it was God's plan for her and St. John. Even though I feel that St. John manipulated Jane through her belief in God and Christianity, I also feel as though this act shows how much Jane values Christianity and God. She cares enough, and has enough faith, that she would have second thoughts about marrying St. John because of what he said before, to make her feel guilty. I was just wondering if anyone else feels as if there is something more behind this complete devotion Jane has for God and nature, and if it has anything to do with how she grew up, or the fact that she was so shunned by society.
ONE: DISCUSSION TOPIC
A discussion topic that I would like to further talk about on Monday is the comparison of Mr. Rochester and St. John Rivers. Both men can serve as methods of oppression within different aspects of Jane’s life. For the first few years of Jane’s life she has been bullied, teased, and beaten. This can also serve as another reason why it takes Jane so long to rise up for what she truly believes in. Jane was the type of human being who followed the religious thought of ‘turning the other cheek’. Her upbringing as an adolescent sculpted her strict interpretation of moral laws. Yet, Mr. Rochester attempts to compromise her moralities within their relationship. Her attraction to him is based of his fiery passion. While her association with St. John Rivers revolved around his dependency and Christian values. The author provides potential suitors who could not be any more different. With Mr. Rochester, Jane would be forced to sacrifice her previous religious values for the sake of a passion relationship. On the other hand, a relationship with St. John would provide a sense of stability. Mr. River’s relationship with Rosamond Oliver mirrors the feelings Mr. Rochester has for Jane. Yet, St. John does not feel that it is appropriate to let himself become fully enveloped with Miss Oliver because she believes it will cause him to stray from the path that God has laid out for him. When it comes down to the line Jane has two men who are willing to take her hand in marriage. As an audience, what choice do you think would be best for Jane’s love life? Who do you think would be able to maker her happiest: Mr. Rochester or Mr. Rivers ?
TWO: DISCUSSION TOPIC
Another topic from Jane Eyre that I’d like to discuss on Monday is Jane’s entire journey as the protagonist. Do you guys think that her main goals were accomplished by the end of the text? As a reader, I thought that one of her most important goals was her search for family. As a child in Thornfield Jane did not receive the type of upbringing that she yearned for. When Jane began to mature she continued to search for a sense of belonging and love. She wanted to be able to reciprocate these feelings so that she would finally be able to find a solace. The first volume almost follows an over obsessive Jane in search of her identity. Jane thought that the only way that she would reach an elevated state of happiness was though finding love and excitement. Miss Temple is the only person in her life who appears to genuinely care for Jane’s well being. Jane adores Miss Temple so much because no one else in her life treated her positively. When Jane falls in love with Mr. Rochester in Thornsfield, the audience thought that she would accept his first marriage proposal. Mr. Rochester accompanied every aspect that she searched for throughout her childhood. He was a man who loved and cared for her. One would think that a portion of Jane’s journey would be complete when she realized that someone was able to bestow love upon her. As a reader, I do not understand why Jane continues to complicate her life by venturing off to Lowood. Her relationship with Mr. Rochester could have resulted in quenching her familial desires. Do you guys think that Jane sabotages her love life intentionally ? If so, for what reason?
ONE: PEER RESPONSE
In response to Kellie’s post in volume two (part one), I’d like to agree with your statement about the relationship between Miss Temple and Jane. The passage that you quoted on page ninety two serves to establish the second portion of Jane’s journey. Miss Temple was the only person to protect Jane against the cruelty of Mr. Brocklehurst. Jane has never been able to trust and confide in a person as much as she does Miss Temple. Even though the author does not include much complexities to Miss Temple’s character, she remains to be a significant character within Jane Eyre. Without her presence Jane would not have felt so adamant about leaving home if Miss Temple hadn’t gotten married. Since Jane’s place of refuge was leaving Lowood there was absolutely no reason for Jane to remain there either. Jane craved “the excitement of something new” (Kellie) because Miss Temple will not be around to pacify her rambunctious characteristics. Jane is finally able to be honest with her true feelings regarding the way in which her life was going. Miss Temple can also be considered as Jane’s safety blanket. Without her, Jane would not be able to keep her mischievous impulses under control. The author only uses Miss Temple to bring about a mental change in the life of the protagonist. Kellie’s post on the relationship between Miss Temple and Jean was able to show the audience how certain character’s serve to influence the motive of the protagonist. It also confirmed how the author continues to causes Jane to be influenced by someone. The text rarely depicts Jane in a situation where she is not influenced by another character. Brontë does this to illuminate Jane’s dependency on others while searching for who she truly is.
PEER RESPONSE: ONE
In relation to Stephany's post on chapter 10, I'd like to agree with the fact that Jane "who has been so submissive in the past years is somewhat emerging paster her life of passivity" (Stephany). It is clear that with the leave of Miss Temple, Jane is transforming herself into something she feels more comfortable with. I disagree with the fact that "Jane would be the type of character who sat back and let life pass her by without any protest" (Stephany) because Jane showed an immense strength when it came to what she believed in when she was younger. I feel as though Jane's passivity started when she began to live on her own in Lowood, especially in the care of Miss Temple, because she did keep Jane in order. I liked Stephany's view on Jane's environment because I did not think that it made the audience "believe that she is dissatisfied" (Stephany). Though I like that idea, I thought that Brontë was trying to show Jane in a reflective state, reaching out to find something beyond her reach. I also thought that the nature involved played a huge role, taking into consideration that is all she was surrounded by. I also felt that the reason why Jane was placed up high overlooking Lowood's backyard was an effect that made it look as though Jane was overlooking her past few years at Lowood, which was just a vast piece of land.
One thing I especially liked was Stephany's incorporation of feminism. I did not even take into consideration Jane's submissive characteristics, and the fact that "the Victorian era does not leave room for Jane to venture off into a life of action and independence" (Stephany). Taking that into consideration, that answers some questions I had before about Jane's final decision about marrying Rochester. Though I felt as though Jane just settled for Rochester because she couldn't find excitement, I completely forgot that this is all happening in the Victorian era, which makes sense as to why Jane ends up marrying Rochester in the end, and devotes her love to him.
PEER RESPONSE: TWO
In response to Stephany's post, I agree that Jane is giving Mr. St. John the same attention she once gave Rochester upon first meeting. What I didn't notice was that "upon coming across new people Jane has the tendency to review their every move very critically (Stephany). I find this very interesting, because Jane goes into much detail and description about people she does not even know. Thinking about this, I wonder why Jane has the tendency to do this. It may be because Jane is trying to analyze people before she even meets them. I also liked the part when Mr. St. John begins to cross examine Jane critically. Did anyone think this was weird that they just met, and St. John was so comfortable asking Jane all of those questions? I felt as though St. John knew that he was over stepping his boundaries as well.
Stephany, in answering your question, I feel as if the significance of Jane's prior residence plays a huge role in their conversation. Although it may come off as very brash of St. John to ask Jane such personal questions, Jane's reaction shows how she feels about where she came from. Jane obviously does not want anyone knowing about her past. She does her best to hide where she came from, she even brushes off St. John's question and does not even answer him. I agree that the author does this to "dramatize the different stages in Jane's life" (Stephany), but I also think that it highlights the stages of who Jane was, and who Jane wants to become.
PEER RESPONSE: THREE
Again, in response to Stephany's first post (part 2), I liked how the strenuous situation between Jane and Mr. Rochester was described. Answering your question Stephany, I do not think that there is a definite answer to whether the author waited for Jane to reflect on her own life or whether she wanted to shake things up, because both make sense. In my opinion, I feel as though it was more of the reflection that contributed to the emergence of Jane's plea being granted. I feel as though the author wanted to have the effect of Jane wanting something so bad, and then getting it immediately. I was thinking about what you said about the Victorian era, and how women were not used to going on adventures and excitement in their lives. That made me think about Jane's excitement in this scene. Although Jane is given the excitement she wanted so much, she ends up leaving Rochester towards the middle of the story. I feel as though the author wanted to touch upon the fact that Jane will never be completely pleased. When she finds excitement, it is only for a short amount of time. I also saw the same theme of an ending excitement in the end, and in Jane's marriage to Rochester. Although she wanted excitement throughout the entire book, she ends up just marrying Rochester and falls deeply in love with him. This fits into the idea of a Victorian based novel that you touched upon in your previous post.
TWO: PEER RESPONSE
Stephanie made an interesting point regarding the way Jane responds to the opinions to others in her life. She thought “that Jane could have a very productive life if she depend[ed] on herself rather then find comfort in others” (Stephanie). Your statement about what Jane’s life could have been serves to be appropriate. In actuality, can you actually envision Jane breaking away from her old habits for good? Her abusive past has caused her to never allow herself to think on her own without reverting back to previous habits. Stephanie also touched on how Jane found a sense of excitement in the midst of her encounter with Rochester. If Jane was granted her wish, why isn’t she genuinely happy? Mr. Rochester’s household causes Jane to be “stuck in her mind with her constant thoughts” (Stephanie) because it is so secluded. The environment she is in does not allow her to go onto the next phase of excitement. If Jane honestly wanted to have a sense of family and love she would have never rejected Mr. Rochester’s first marriage proposal. It is apparent that Jane is a romantic character through her irrational gestures in response to her personal feelings. Instead of thinking rationally about the situation, she allows her mind to run away with her. Do Jane’s repeated actions show that she is afraid of commitment?
THREE: PEER RESPONSE
Kellie also made another interesting point for volume three in relation to Jane’s connection with nature. The author does this to illuminate the significance of a human relationship with the outdoors. It is no surprise that Brontë chooses to do this in the volume where St. John is involved. Nature emphasizes the importance of solitude and contemplation while transcending into a state where one can truly be at peace. The reason why Brontë causes “Jane [to] describe this nature character as if it were her mother” is to exemplify her constant search for finding a family. Jane was clearly unable to fully satisfy her desires with members of society. Instead she chose to turn to God because he is “unconditionally loving and caring” (Kellie). Through religion Jane was able to realize certain aspects of herself that were locked away for some time now. It is apparent that Jane must have been in search of a motherly figure since Miss Temple left Lowood. One would think that the departure of Miss Temple would catapult Jane into the mindset of an individual. As for now, nature and Christianity would be able to fill the void that Jane constantly felt. Do you guys think that Jane will ever be able to fill that void within herself without any outside influence ?
Peer response one
In response to Stephany, volume 3 part 1. “For a woman who was just so taken with Mr. Rochester in past chapters, she appears to be paying entirely too much attention to Mr. St. John. Jane somehow configures background information on a man who she has never had a conversation with.” Stephany I don’t really blame her with having moving on with her life. I do agree with you how she moving to fast. But there something about Mr. St. John that makes her fell at home, she can be herself. On page 309 “to be a village- school mistress, free and honest.” In this part she referring to what life is or could be with Mr. St. John. Think about it all her life, she’s been mistreated, not cared for. Now that she finally went to a place where she belongs, she is taking her chance. I don’t blame her at all. For some reason I like Mr. John better than Mr. Rochester. Mr. Rochester had a weird way of communicating with Jane.
Another topic that you mention I like to respond to you “Jane obviously does not what the River family to know that she is from Thornfield or her connection to Mr. Rochester. Still, I do not understand why that type of information would be relevant in this specific situation. What do you think the significance of Jane’s prior residence plays within this conversation? Brontë does this to dramatize the different stages in Jane’s life.” I felt like she ashamed of with that life she had with Mr. Rochester. To think about it, I don’t think she was happy living there. Yes, she did find Mr. Rochester interesting and handsome. But Mr. Rochester didn’t really treat her with respect. I felt like the reason she didn’t mention life with Mr. Rochester is that they were going to ask a lot question. Maybe she felt, it’s the past, she learn her lesson, now its time to move on. It’s like she going to journey.
Peer Response 1 Stephany Jean
In response to Stephany Jean’s post on Jane’s transformation in Volume 2, I found her opinion of Jane going to the top of the building compelling. She states that “Going to the top of the building allows her to rise about what has happened in her past. Jane comes to terms which the conflicting demeanors within herself. She is able to configure a brand new perception of the situation that has been laid out before her.” I felt that this metaphor for her was very interesting because I had not seen it that way. I was able to understand the significance and I felt that the height allowing her to gain a new perspective created new meaning to the passage for me. Her outlook on the nature that surrounded her allowed her to gain new meaning on life and let the past go, which was not something I had previously thought of. I found her interpretation of this new perspective as a result of her growth compelling.
This view also made me think of Jane’s view of nature. I had wrote about it and this gaining a new perspective seems to constantly be associated with Jane’s transition to a new environment. Every time she is put in a new place, in this case a different height, she is allowed to gain a new outlook and change herself. Transformation seems to be a constant theme throughout the book.
Peer Response 2 Sandy
In response to Sandy’s post on the significance of the meeting between Rochester and Jane in Volume 2, I found her view of the situation very compelling. She states “Rochester’s household seems to be secluded and no one seems to go in and out very often. The household seems to be in its own little world and Jane is now apart of that little world. Not only is she in this new place that’s sheltered but Jane is always stuck in her mind with her constant thoughts.” She views Thornfield as a new world for Jane and I found myself agreeing as she described how a change in environment did not change how Jane lives in her own mind. I had not realized that Jane’s mind continues to be the world she lives in, even though she enters other world, which in this case happens to be Thornfield and Rochester.
This view of the situation made me think of Jane’s introduction to Whitcross. As she enters the new environment and new world, she in fact begins to enter a new stage in her life, but continues to live in her own mind. Her constant dependence on her own thoughts does not allow her to make many connections with others, which may be the cause of her rejection society and its opinions of her.
Peer Response 3 Kellie
In response to Kellie’s post on the significance of nature in the novel in Volume 3 was compelling and interesting to me. She states “Just as God, Nature will be the only thing that will accept Jane as she is. Jane only feels comfortable surrounded by nature because she is not surrounded by humanity, just her true self, where acceptance is not pleaded for. Nature should now be viewed as a parental figure for Jane, like a guardian looking down on their child, just as God is.” I had not previously viewed the presence of Christianity in Jane’s relationship with nature, but instead saw it as more of a pagan relationship. The idea of nature being a parental figure was interesting, nature providing the connection that humanity could not give her was very interesting to me.
This view of nature made me think of Jane’s relationship with Rochester. He became her nature during their relationship. He provided her with that connection she had always gained from nature and seemed to become its substitute to her. It was interesting to see how both were so related in the book.
Discussion Topic 1
In class on Monday I would like to discuss the introduction of Rochester’s first wife, Bertha Mason. The moment where she is introduced is a very gothic scene and her character adds a gothic element to the book which is very evident from the beginning of her introduction. I want to trace her introduction to her description in Chapter 26 and look at the clues given throughout of her character and end with the description given in that chapter which ends the suspense. The characterization of Bertha is extreme and I would like to see the classes opinions on her character and what significance she holds in relation to who Rochester is presently and contrast her with Jane’s character.
Discussion Topic 2
On Monday I would like to take a closer look at all of Chapter 37 and the reappearance of Rochester and his changed state. I believe that the contrast between who he was and who he is at this point shows his development as a Byronic hero and I would like to look at the consequences that a Byronic hero must suffer due to their character, in his case going blind and losing a hand. The descriptions given in this chapter are very compelling and further develop him as a Byronic hero and give a closer look into the development of both Jane and Rochester. I feel that comparing this chapter with the rest of the book will give insight to the overlying theme of the novel and we will be able to trace the developing characters of Rochester and Jane.
I would like to discuss page 314-315 Jane describes her dream. The “white human form” says to her, “My daughter, flee temptation!” and Jane replies, “Mother, I will.” Jane has not mentioned her actual parents much or even at all throughout the book, but this may be the first time she does – but in a dream. I found it interesting how she may still have such a spiritual connection or desire for her mother even though she seldom mentions her in her everyday life. An even more interesting idea is that ‘mother’ can address more than one person or thing. I think ‘mother’ can be an allusion to nature, which can be supported by Kellie’s Volume 3 Response Question. ‘Mother’ can also allude to the Virgin Mary considering Jane’s deep connection to her faith. Also, why does Jane keep all of her desires to herself? She’s always telling herself to “flee temptation,” which I noticed is always any form of love. But isn’t that what she’s been searching for her whole life? I would like to discuss Jane’s conflicting actions – pulling for love and then pushing it away. Her insecure personality may be a product of more than just a lacking childhood. I think Rochester represents every potential of heartbreak as a Byronic hero. One of his characteristics is sexual dominance, so I would like to discuss her personality in the feminist sense.
Comment on Stephany’s post
Group B: Part 1
I like how in this post Stephany J. shows how Jane views other characters, and how they view her. She said, “Jane views Mr. Rivers as an intense, harsh human being. Upon coming across new people Jane has the tendency to review their every move very critically.” I feel like this idea can also be used to describe how Jane’s past life effects her now with how she lives, and how she judges others. She already judged people harshly. However now, after what happened with Mr. Rochester, and all that took place at his house it’s not surprising if she views others in a negative way. I think the way that men react to her is interesting. Like Stephany said both of these guys acted the same way “He appeared to have more important things to tend to than dealing with Jane at the moment. This behavior was previously observed when Mr. Rochester was first introduced into the text.” When she rescued Mr. Rochester he didn’t even really notice her before, it took him a long time before he finally looked at her, and actually viewed her face. On page 121 it says, “He looked at me when I said this: he had hardly turned his eyes in my direction before.” And here she is with Mr. St. John and he just ignores her. For what you said about her being ‘ a women who was just so taken with Mr. Rochester in past chapters, she appears to be paying entirely too much attention to Mr. St. John. Jane somehow configures background information on a man who she has never had a conversation with.’ I felt like it’s because she’s not that experienced. Previously in the novel she spoke about how she’s never seen a handsome man before so she had nothing to compare Mr. Rochester to, so maybe that’s why she’s so stuck on them, she’s not really used to having men in her life. I feel like she’s not really over what happened at Thornfeild, that it might be awkward for her to start talking about where she last resided.
To what Sam. J. Said
Group A: Part 1
I think that it’s a very interesting idea. She’s leaving something, which was part of her life that is dark behind. Nature is this place of brightness and blissfulness. This makes me wonder why she went back in the end. I understand that it’s her love, and she feels very strongly for him, but if this place represents darkness why does she go back with him. I was wondering if the house burning is supposed to demonstrate the destruction of that darkness. I like the idea that the environment surrounding her represents how she’s feeling ‘She begins by describing the “ridged with mountains” landscape that surrounds her’. With the idea that ‘Without a tie to society she begins to push further into nature to find her and discover what she will do next’ I felt the same way, I felt like she was finding herself. Even though this environment represented what she was going through and how she felt, it still represented a type of haven for Jane, where she could regain some of what she lost. I also felt like she created a connection with Mother Nature and where she was, the environment was ‘Very much like her, nature is wild and does not fit with society norms, but instead has a mind of it and creates its own path.’ She’s taking all these different paths which are not really accepted by society at an attempt of finding herself. The Wildness is standing by itself away from society, just like her neither one of them fit in.
That was peer comment 2
Stephany's was Peer Comment 1
Peer Comment 3
Jackie spoke about how this was similar to Jesus’ 40 nights, and I think that’s a good connection, and I didn’t really realize that until I read this post. The idea of her living like an animal where she said ‘The act of leaving civilization also brings with it the idea of getting back to the animalistic roots that all humans have the idea that one must struggle to not only live but survive like animals do.’ It shows a great contrast between the wilderness and society. Society has rules and laws that are made to be followed and those that go against it are considered as outcasts. Here in the Wilderness she is living like an animal, relying on her self and her instincts, not ideas created by others for her to follow. I don’t feel like her surviving in the wilderness is what make her the hero she’s supposed to be. I feel like her overcoming everything from the beginning and shaping her life putting everything together, and finding a way to get the courage to get back with Mr. Rochester, and making her life work was the heroic act. I know this walk journey in the wilderness was important, but I don’s t think that’s what makes her the hero.
Topic Disscussion 1:
I like the section where they get together again, from the bottom of page 421 to the end of page 425. Here you see how much they care for each other. She tells him that she’ll rearrange her life around him, and that she’ll be with him even after what happened. I was wondering why this had to happen to his character, because it seems like one way or another she would create a new life. Does making him like that make Jane more of a hero? I also wonder why he’s blind now. It would make more since for him to be blind in the beginning when he didn’t really see Jane for who she was, but now he already knows her, so him not having vision’s not going to help him see her true self better and get a better understanding. I was reading Hillary’s post, and the idea of him being dominant and Jane and her feminism ideas are interesting. Could that be a reason that he’s not the way he was in the beginning? In a way it’s been equalized, or she’s more powerful. So he’s not dominant physically. Could that be the author’s way of fighting against male dominance, because I felt like that was somewhat accomplished in this novel. It’s just the fact that she said she’s been married for ten years and is still happy seems to go against it. It seems like she’s settling, after all that fighting she shouldn’t need a man to make her happy. Isn’t that what all those masculine ideas are about?
I feel like we can also talk about Feminism. I see that the idea shows up more than once. On page 377 when St. John comes to talk to her he said ‘You wander: your head becomes confused. I have been too abrupt in communicating the news; it has exited you beyond your strength.’ That seems so sexist, only a man would say something like that. So her thinking too much gets her confused. I also saw the money as Jane getting everything she wanted. Her journey is ending so she’s getting everything she fought for. Now she has a family, it’s weird how she found them though. And the struggle of social class she’s been facing her whole life. Now she’s finding herself. She not poor anymore, she’s rich enough to be independent and be her own woman. This also elevates her, so that when she goes back to Rochester she doesn’t have to depend on him financially, so she’s a match for Rochester. Now she can be with Rochester without her being someone under his payroll hanging over her head. Now she has all that of a woman of upper class, she has the breeding, education, and money to back herself up.
One thing I really to talk about in class is Janes love affair with Rochester. It seems to me like Bronte is trying to say something about Jane as a character but for me it doesn't seem to connect. Also her decision to leave Thornfield both confused and really angered me. I found it interesting how quickly she turned on him and how she was unmoved by anything he said. When she claims that she "learnt to love" Rochester, it made me think that perhaps Jane is trying to hard to convince the reader that she is a good person or hero. Howver it makes me question whether or not she is a reliable narrator. It was at this point that I began to doubt and somewhat dislike Jane because she never allows for the other characters to develop in font of the reader, all we have is her point of view. I find that it is difficult to believe her because she often exaggerates situations.I find that even though she gives detailed descriptions of everything it is because we only have her word to rely on and it is always skewed in her favor, she always seems like the victim. However we never hear from Rochester or anybody else. I was wondering what everybody else thought regarding Janes reactions and how reliable she is as a narrator and whether or not she really is a victim.
Peer Response # 1
I found Hilary’s take on Mr. Rochester and Jane’s relationship quite interesting. I liked the moral approach she took to it, and how she explained that Jane’s character would be subdued as a result. It made me think about how she would be seen as a woman during the Victorian age, and how she would see herself. Although she is a romantic character, which in turn would mean that she rejects social norm, she still has to think about what impact it would have on her character. Jane probably would be nonchalant about this when she was younger, but as she grew up, she realized that she can’t rebel against everything. There are some things that have to be accepted and tolerated. She shows that there’s a limit to what one can do, and how much he or she can rebel. Although she doesn’t conform to society, Jane still has her morale. I also like how Hilary said that “Jane tries to find balance between morality and her happiness.” It really made me think about what Bronte is saying about the human condition. Should we put our own emotions and happiness first or do we have a responsibility to society and our moral contribution to it?
Peer Response # 2
I found Jackie’s take on the Jesus allusion interesting because of the way she was mirroring them together. She drew similarities between Jesus and Jane and how their strength and faith would be tested. She did a good job relating to nature when she said “In nature she must fend for herself and she has no one to rely on but herself as did Jesus. In nature she has a chance to begin her life again and consider new possibilities for herself.” This goes back to our discussion and how Jane is a Christ figure and my previous post. Jane has to go through these tests to figure her out. A hero is not simply called a hero; he or she has to earn it. He or she either has to perform a good deed or go through obstacles that not only make them physically strong, but mentally too. Jackie’s point was interesting on how Jane wants he sins to be forgiven by God, “Overall, Jane's attitude toward nature seems to be driven by Christianity, it seems as though now, more than any other time or passage in the book, Jane draws on her faith to give her strength. It is here that she prays, whereas when she was happily in love with Rochester, she did not pray or mention God. Perhaps this chapter is a way for Jane to repent and ask "God" to forgive her sins as well as Rochester's..” That shows that Jane is a common human being going through a journey, but when she finishes it, she will become someone else.
Peer Response # 3
I liked Stephany’s take on Jane and how she expresses excitement. She did a good job portraying how the author characterizes Jane. Stephany described in detail what Jane’s feelings were toward Miss Temple “The departure of Miss Temple Jane feels as though she cannot remain content in Lowood any longer. In Chapter 10 Jane expresses how she misses her dear teacher. She was one of the only people in Jane’s life that treated her kindly.” She further explained how this makes Jane a romantic character. What’s even better about her analysis is that it made me think about how that either contradicts or compliments with her being a gothic character. She has a lot of emotions, and she expresses them in a very intense manner, but being a romantic character, those feelings are emphasized. Stephany showed two different kinds of emotion; happiness and sadness “Afterward, she begins to depict her environment in a way that would make the audience believe that she is dissatisfied with the way that her life as been going for the past eight years of her life” which makes Jane’s character the more interesting and complex.
Discussion Topic 1
I want to discuss the allusion to God in the novel. Jane suddenly has God in her life, and she is goes on to talk about the influence of God on nature. More importantly I want o know why Jane is even being compared to God. It’s very interesting to see a female character being juxtaposed with a Jesus character, because usually it is a male. I wonder what this says about the author and her perception on feminine. I want to know why she associates femininity with religion, Christianity more importantly. I think it has something to do with the era and females being associated with romanticism, but I want to discuss it for further analysis. I want to discuss it because it’s a very interesting thing to discuss and because I’m a Christian and a woman.
Discussion Topic 2
I also want to discuss the relationship between Miss Oliver and Jane. As we discussed in class previously, every one that enters Jane’s life leaves it. She can never really get close to someone without them leaving her life. I want further explanation on Miss Oliver’s importance. “Miss Oliver already honored me with frequent visits to my cottage. I had learnt her whole character; which was without mystery or disguise: she was coquettish, but not heartless; exacting, but not worthlessly selfish….” (Bronte 360). I want to know why she described her so much in detail, just as she had described Mr. Rochester, and what it has to do with the importance of her character and the meaning of the work as a whole.
Peer Response #1
“Previously, Jane would be the type of character who sat back and let life pass her by without any protest. The audience is able to view the preceding of her transformation process. During which Jane matures from an angry girl bent on self-survival into a self-reliant young woman seeking to serve others” (Stephany). I was reading what Stephany was saying about how Jane would be the type of character who would “let life pass her by without any protest” and I agreed completely but then disagreed. I feel like Jane didn’t really just let life pass her by. I definitely agree that Jane was reliant on Miss Temple for her happiness but still she was doing some things on her own. For example Jane wanted to do well in her school because that was something she actually enjoyed doing, not for anyone else but for herself. Except this is only half true considering she wanted to make her teachers happy but I do believe she did enjoy school because she actually liked it. But when she was younger I do think she tried to protest again her aunt when she didn’t agree with something. I guess I only disagree with the statement for when Jane was younger because as Jane grew older, Jane seemed to just conform with what ever her life was doing and just as Stephany said, she only seemed to budge when her life wasn’t comfortable because her reliant source of happiness had moved on.
Peer Response #1
“Previously, Jane would be the type of character who sat back and let life pass her by without any protest. The audience is able to view the preceding of her transformation process. During which Jane matures from an angry girl bent on self-survival into a self-reliant young woman seeking to serve others” (Stephany). I was reading what Stephany was saying about how Jane would be the type of character who would “let life pass her by without any protest” and I agreed completely but then disagreed. I feel like Jane didn’t really just let life pass her by. I definitely agree that Jane was reliant on Miss Temple for her happiness but still she was doing some things on her own. For example Jane wanted to do well in her school because that was something she actually enjoyed doing, not for anyone else but for herself. Except this is only half true considering she wanted to make her teachers happy but I do believe she did enjoy school because she actually liked it. But when she was younger I do think she tried to protest again her aunt when she didn’t agree with something. I guess I only disagree with the statement for when Jane was younger because as Jane grew older, Jane seemed to just conform with what ever her life was doing and just as Stephany said, she only seemed to budge when her life wasn’t comfortable because her reliant source of happiness had moved on.
Peer Response #2
“The treatment of nature in the novel as a whole should now be seen as Jane’s escape. Just as God, Nature will be the only thing that will accept Jane as she is. Jane only feels comfortable surrounded by nature because she is not surrounded by humanity, just her true self, where acceptance is not pleaded for. Nature should now be viewed as a parental figure for Jane, like a guardian looking down on their child, just as God is” (Kellie). I feel like Kellie definitely worded this better then I did when I was trying to explain how Mother Nature was a figure who was a “guardian” (Kellie) as Kellie put it, for Jane. But the part that I believe Kellie put into better words was when she said “Jane only feels comfortable surrounded by nature because she is not surrounded by humanity” (Kellie). Well said I must say because that was exactly what I was trying to get at when I said Jane was all alone. When Jane relied her happiness on Miss Temple and Mr. Rochester, she was living more for them then for herself, especially in the case of Mr. Rochester. But when Jane goes out into the wilderness, she has no one but herself and Mother Nature, being just the environment around her to allow her to breath and think on her own.
Peer Response #3
“She starts off the chapter by saying “Hitherto I have recorded in details the events of my insignificant existence … (p. 91)” This line alone is very negative, it shows how this character views herself, and her existence in society. It takes Miss Temple leaving her life for Jane to realize that she hasn’t really done much. This whole time she thought she was happy, because she achieved what society had asked of her since the beginning” (Jen). The first quote Jen uses is a quote that I remember so clearly because I put a post-it note there to remember that line. All I remember thinking was that Jane had a serious lack of confidence and that she didn’t look at herself with any importance. This showed how Jane really had no sense of her role in society. As in, she did what she believed she had to do, as Jen pointed out, but she wasn’t living for herself. In life you can’t live for other people, you have to live for yourself because it’s your own life that you living. No one else can tell you what makes you happy. There is no set code of happiness. And when you don’t live life for yourself you’re not going to be happy and it’s almost life wasted until you do what is right for yourself. At that point in the story, Jane was not living for herself or doing what she thought she should so she had no self importance. She sounded like she was miserable and had no self esteem at all because she was living her life for others.
Peer Response #1
“Previously, Jane would be the type of character who sat back and let life pass her by without any protest. The audience is able to view the preceding of her transformation process. During which Jane matures from an angry girl bent on self-survival into a self-reliant young woman seeking to serve others” (Stephany). I was reading what Stephany was saying about how Jane would be the type of character who would “let life pass her by without any protest” and I agreed completely but then disagreed. I feel like Jane didn’t really just let life pass her by. I definitely agree that Jane was reliant on Miss Temple for her happiness but still she was doing some things on her own. For example Jane wanted to do well in her school because that was something she actually enjoyed doing, not for anyone else but for herself. Except this is only half true considering she wanted to make her teachers happy but I do believe she did enjoy school because she actually liked it. But when she was younger I do think she tried to protest again her aunt when she didn’t agree with something. I guess I only disagree with the statement for when Jane was younger because as Jane grew older, Jane seemed to just conform with what ever her life was doing and just as Stephany said, she only seemed to budge when her life wasn’t comfortable because her reliant source of happiness had moved on.
Discussion Topic # 1
What I wanted to talk about in class was the part when Jane found out that the man she was about to marry was still already married. When I read that part I was in complete shock. It was one of the times I actually gasped out load. What I wanted to talk about was how could Mr. Rochester do such a horrible thing to Jane. I believe that his feelings for her were real and that he did love her but if he loved her so much why couldn’t he be up front about his situation. Perhaps maybe he was afraid he would loose Jane if he was honest with her but he took his dishonesty too far when he brought Jane to the alter to get married.
Discussion Topic #2
Another topic I wanted to bring up in the book was the part when Miss Temple moves away and Jane feels lost but then says that she’s an “inmate” (Brontë 92) but she wasn’t unhappy. That part seriously did confuse me. I did not understand how she could be content being an inmate. An inmate is a word associated with prisoner. How could Jane be happy being a prisoner? It just doesn’t make sense. Was Jane so discontent with her life that even being a prisoner was better then being nothing? Did she really have that much lack of her self pride? When she says that she was happy. I don’t believe her, I feel like she is lying to herself because after that she seems to have moment of when she actually does things for herself.
On Monday, I would like to discuss the ending paragraph. This is definitely a gothic, romantic, and love story all in one. I was not sure how I expected the story to end, but it ended pretty perfectly. Considering the gothic and intensely dramatic scenes, it seems fitting for the ending to end on a light note. However, I wonder why she ends with St. John’s last words. This makes me think that she loved him much more than I had previously thought. They did not end on a very good note when she rejected his marriage proposal and he left for India. But then I can see how Jane can connect St. John’s conclusion with her own. At this point in her life I think she too has “no fear of death” (441). Just like how Jane previously identified their similarity of not yet achieving the “peace of God” (345), Jane may finally see that both have achieved it at the end. It is a very triumphant ending! Why else do you think Bronte would end the story in this way? What effect would the story have as a whole if the ending was sad?
Peer Response #1:
What I found compelling about Kellie’s Volume 3 Response was her claim that “Jane settles for Rochester’s love in compensation for the motherly figure that she always wanted.” I actually disagree with this because I believe she was bound to fall in love with him from the start. When the two first met, Rochester did not promise Jane a good life. He did not do much to entice her interest and yet she was still attracted. I think it is just the way humans and emotions work. Even when Jane marries Rochester, I believe she did it out of pure love and not to just mainly “fill that void” (Kellie). Rochester was severely handicapped when they finally got married at the end. He could not do much to care for her and be a “motherly figure” (Kellie) to her. Of course Rochester did serve to love her wholeheartedly, but I just think it odd that Jane would just give up at the end. Just as she rejected St. John and his marriage proposal, Jane has reasons to do what she does! Her realizations of who she loves, what is most important, and her ultimate desires are reflected by her final decision to marry Rochester. I definitely believe she found that “sense of security” (Kellie) that she has been searching for and has finally become comfortable to make her own choices.
Peer Response #2
Jackie’s Volume 3 Response brings up an interesting idea about martyrdom. She claims that Jane “tries to make herself seem like a Martyr…” I never actually thought of this before, but now that I think back to the text it makes perfect sense. I remember last year my teacher always asked me if a narrator was reliable and I was never sure what that meant since I believed everything I read. However, I can see how this whole book is entirely questionable. Jane is one person. She can only give one perspective. She controls what she tells us since this is her autobiography. This allows her to exaggerate, lie, play with emotions through her words, omit information, etc. The way she victimizes herself makes this book seem like a Cinderella rip-off. Especially since this is written in the Victorian Era, her diction displays sophisticated prose, which makes the text gloomier. The way she describes nature, even though most times it is beautiful, makes me think that she is all the more lonely. Her quiet observations of other people show that she lives inside her head, talking to herself and the reader. She always mentions her hardships. Everything feels so alienated and unexciting. I especially think she martyrs herself when she talks about Christianity and God. I personally think it is all talk because, like Jackie mentions, only “draws on her faith to give her strength” when she needs it. A true Christian would be somewhat more devout. I am not forgetting about Jane’s hardships, but I think she excessively uses techniques to manipulate our sympathy.
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