Here's your schedule that you came up with:- November 16: 1st section of book and posts due by midnight.
- November 21: 2nd section of the book and posts due by midnight.
- November 28: 3rd and final section of book and blog posts due by midnight.
This is a 100 point homework assignment.
- You need to make 9 posts in total. (Your book should be broken up into three sections, and for each section you should post three times.)
- Please title your posts Post 1-3, Parts A, B, C etc.
Part A: Post your reaction to something specific and thought provoking in the book (though this is not a minimum, each post should be around 400-500 words.) Feel free to ask questions in this section as well, since everyone will be reading these posts.
Part B: You should also respond by elaborating on another comment in the stream (about the same length--).
Part C: You should continue to respond by elaborating on another comment in the stream (about the same length--).
You will be graded on the Malden High School Open Response Rubric.
The above prompts are vague because it is up to you as a group to start to develop your own focus. You can feel free to bring in outside research etc, just make sure you cite or give a link to your sources—but I’m most interested in your “philosophical” discussions about specifics in the books and your ability to discuss the writer’s technique and how he or she affects meaning.
Here’s a links to a solid discussion from two years ago: Madame Bovary. The requirements were a bit vague for the postings and there is a variety of effort and insight in these posts, but on the whole I thought it was quite nice to read.
43 comments:
Part 1: Part A
Before I even began to read the novel the summary on the back sparked the idea of exactly what message I’d be looking for. Azadeh Moaveni was a women who looked for her place in the world, but was it more towards Iran or America? As I transitioned into the beginning portions of the novel it was apparent that Lipstick Jihad would portray two societies that were complete opposites of each other. Azadeh Moaveni would take the role of being an active speaker throughout the novel. As the protagonist, Moaveni’s thoughts are used to discover what is in the mind of the other minor and major characters.
A quote that stood out within the novel was stated by Moaveni’s mother (Maman). Her assertion about how certain people valued their principles was very relatable. On page 20, she says that “values are like groceries; you’d cruise through the aisles, toss the ones you fancied into the cart, and leave the unappealing ones on the shelf”. If a reader was to simply read this excerpt they would think that her mother was a strict follower of the regime even though they resided in California. In actuality, Maman was a women who was in exile because she broke Iranian rules and got divorced. At the same time she tries to parent Moaveni in an Iranian style, while shielding her from American values. Maman thought that “[Americans] figured out to corrupt…, and rather than fix themselves, they want to force their sick culture on the rest of the world”. She was not the typical poster child for Iranian women at this specific point in time. As I continued to read Maman seemed so contradictory that she stopped making sense to me. Maman did not know if she wanted to be an Americanized Iranian women or an Iranian women who lived in America. Moaveni’s sense of feeling lost in transition about her “true place” could possibly be traced back the hypocrisy of Maman. At this point I am still uncertain on her generalized stand point because of her conflicting perceptions. It is apparent that she does not agree with aspects of either of the cultures, which has been transitioned into the thought process of her daughter. Another reason why I believe that Moaveni is at a crossroad at this point of her life is because of her father. He states that Iran did not even deserve to be categorized as a “culture”. By denouncing his culture completely Moaveni receives mixed messages from both of her parents. As a result, Moaveni chooses to go to Iran for herself to figure out how her native country impacts her life.
After spending a few weeks in Iran Moaveni is starting to piece together a personal perception without the input of others. She states that “this is not a country, it is hell”. By her tone the audience could perceive that Moaveni was taken aback by what she saw. Her rebellious behavior that she exhibited in California reared its ugly head in Iran. She depicted getting dressed as a battle between “me vs. the regime” because her usual freedoms in America were quickly silenced. In this country she was unable to sneak around and dress as she pleased because the government would take part in disciplining the unlawful act.
At this point in the novel Moaveni does not seem like she is making much progress in discovering how her native country impacts her life. How do you think Moaveni’s decision will play out for her in section two? Will she regret her decision and decide to go back home in California? Either way I do not see this ending very well for Moaveni. It could be that she bit off more than she could chew this time. This novel resembles Reading Lolita in Tehran in its message, but is different in its delivery. Moaveni writes in a way that the youth are able to connect and respond to.
I liked the way the author started the first few chapters. When she moved to America, she keeps thinking of Iran, the place that’ in her memory, that se left behind. In the first few chapters. She’s very descriptive, and uses a great deal of imagery to show that place that she’s missing. I think it had a great effect to see the contradiction once she actually got her wish. The place she described, to her, seemed like come kind of utopia. It states, “ And I lay content on my back on the Persian rug outside,as Maman chatted with Sedigheh about our life in America, debating whether tomorrow I should go after the delicate white toot, or the dark red.” When she gets to go back again she calls the place she’s longed to go back to “hell” I just thought it was interesting how different things actually were from what she wanted it to be.
When I started reading Lipstic Jihad many things kind of stood out to me. It was really interesting to see how Azadeh struggled between her two cultures. Here I get to see the effect of the revolution. In the move, she lost herself. She feels lost in this new world she’s trying to adapt to, and she’s holding on to an imaginary place that doesn’t really exist. I feel like she was able to capture a sense of what some people feel, when they move to a new country holding on to some imaginary world, while trying to merge two cultures together.
Part 1: Part A
It seems like in the transitioning, people end up losing themselves. In different sections in the book, she would talk about immigrants, and émigré. I just thought it was a little weird; because they’re all here trying to make a better life for themselves, so what does it matter whether you’re an immigrant or an émigré. On page 26, it says, “was I brown? Was I an immigrant…Iranian women like Khaleh Farzi lived in daily fear of being mistaken for a Mexican—a pedestrian immigrant rather than a tragic émigré.” it just seemed like they’re fooling themselves ,trying to soften the blow, like those who never had to lift a finger in their lives before have to work as waitresses. It just seem like they were trying to keep whatever part of the culture that they could retain. By carrying themselves the way they do they would still be part of the upper class.
In the first few chapters, when she talks about her childhood, it seems like belonging to another culture was a burden to her. She would get embarrass every time someone asked her of her origin, or when she has to help her grandmother, do things, like going grocery shopping. I don’t think the way her mother raised was very helpful. She’s very eccentric, so I think it made things harder for Azadeh, having a mom that’s completely the opposite of her American friend’s moms.
Part1: Section 2
What Stephanie said , does seem true, about Maman. I thought that the quote you use goes with her character. When it comes to women and their place in society, and divorced women she agrees with American views, then she’ll turn around and blame them for something and call them pigs. I agree, I don’t think she knew what to do with herself. She thought she was losing her daughter to the American culture. On page 23 it says, “ Every four years she seemed to chose a new religious avenue to explore, convinced our lives were lacking in spirituality and since we had already done Buddhism and Hinduism, and briefly toyed with Mormonism, it was Islam’s turns. I think that her uncertainty rubbed off on her daughter. Having to transition into a new world can be hard enough, but it seemed like her mother brought more chaos into her world. I feel like in way she acts irresponsible. For example she tricked her daughter to thinking that she can be trustful, and turns on her right after.
Everything was so chaotic when she finally got to go back to Iran. She hears about things that are happening, and decides that she wants to be part of it. The chapter’ s called Homecoming, and it’s not my idea of a homecoming. It seems like the move did some major damage, she felt like she needed a connection to her homeland. When she went back things were staring to get crazy again, I know I wouldn’t want to go back if people were starting to protest against the government. It states, “…Could it be happening all over again? Without me? How could there be another revolution when I still didn’t understand the first one...”The second she stepped on land things were different. While in Egypt she kept on buying those apples just because she was told it was from Iran expecting things to be as sweet as the apples On page 34 it states,” He promised his perfect, crunchy white apples were exported from Iran, and I bought bagfuls--” but what she found was just a controlling government. After she arrived it says “my aunt and uncle swiftly barred me from leaving the house.” The whole time she wanted to go back, I don’t think she ever really thought about the bad. She felt that she had to be part of the history so she went back, but she wasn’t ready for all the rules, and societies’ views against women. Right when she got in the country some of her things was thrown away because they were considered inappropriate.
I think coming to her homeland, has finally made her see things, as they are for the first time. All her life she’s wanted to have a connection with her homeland, but I don’t think she expected everything to be that hard. I’m not sure, but I don’t think she’ll go back yet. It took her so long to get here, to try to find herself. Maybe she’ll keep on trying. I agree, growing in America, she was allowed to have freedom that these women aren’t allowed, and now she’s being put in their shoes, but this journey’s all about her finding herself, so I guess we’ll see,
Part 1: Part B
In response to Jen, I disagree with your assertion that “In the first few chapters, when she talks about her childhood, it seems like belonging to another culture was a burden to her”. As I read I thought that Moaveni did not know how to juggle where her roots where located and where she actually lived. It was more a challenge than an actual burden. The reader is able to see that Moaveni tried to make herself seem less Iranian because she was afraid of how other people would react towards her. She was more concerned with balancing out here home life and her social life that she beginning to lose herself in the process of it all. Yet, I can see where you would think that Moaveni saw belonging to this specific culture was a burden. While Maman continued to try out a variety of religions it caused Moaveni to scoff at her decisions in a sense. On page 10 Moaveni recounts when her mother gives a presentation to her classmates about eggs. A reader could sense her embarrassment as she states, “masses of mad Persians flinging clumps of grass into the dank reservoir”.
The chapter titled “Homecoming” did not make as much sense to me either. California seemed like more of a home than Iran ever could at this time. The drastic changes that the country was undergoing only added to the difficulty of transitioning to a brand new place. In my mind Moaveni rushed into leaving everything she had ever known behind. It just does not make any sense that she would embark on this journey without doing the research. Moaveni was foolish to make assumptions about a country that she barely knew in the first place.
Another topic that continued through the first section was in the chapter titled “We Don’t Need No Revolution”. Just when the audience thinks that Moaveni is making small steps toward the Iranian lifestyle she back tracks. On page 83 she states, “ The Islamic Republic does not control me; see it in the layers of makeup I apply to my face, the tightness of my jeans, the wantonness of my sex life, the Ecstasy I drop.” Moaveni was unable to stifle the sexual spects of her life. She found it foolish that men and women were not able to simply be in the company of each other. As a result, she thought that they didn’t have a “sense of what normal behavior between the sexes looked like” because interactions were being dismissed completely. The government wanted to basically split up the sexes from having any type of interaction and Moaveni was not having that by any means. A women could only conform to rules for a certain amount of time. The quote on page 83 just makes me think of the popular phrase that “rules are meant to be broken”.
Continuing the discussion about sexuality in Iran, I’d like to transition to a question asked on page 73. The question asked, “How do you think young people deal with their physical needs?” One would think that they would simply dismiss there urges because the country has strict rules about keeping their women pure. What alarmed me was that a sigheh, “temporary marriage” could take place when a man wanted to sleep together. The entire process was fairly quick which just did not make any sense. The Iranian government prided themselves on protecting the integrity of men and women, but this “temporary marriage” only seemed to be hypocritical to the utmost degree. If the revolution has this is an outlet, how many more outlets exist? The revolutionists want to portray a certain message out to the rest of society when they cannot even follow through with it fully themselves. Did this section of the chapter bother anyone else ?
To start with, after reading Lolita in Tehran, I became more interested in that topic, which is why I decided to read about Women in the Middle East. So far, Lipstick Jihad by Azadeh Moaven is a great book. It’s exactly the type of book I was looking for.
One of the quotes that stand out to me was when Uncle ends up in prison because of his so called roommates. “They had been friendly in those college days, and when at the dawn of the revolution my uncle was taken to prison, he contracted his old roommate Chamran. No reply. “Your type must go,” came a message, through a friend.” Page 6.When reading this quotes, I was really surprised, I know friendship don’t last , but really how he do such things, making your own friend go to prison for a nonsense things is like taking it to the next level , and on top to say , “ Your type must go.” That is just not right. Come to think about this, I feel like in those moments or those days there were no such things as friendship, people were just trying to make it out there, and they would do anything, which I believe was selfish of them. I feel like you couldn’t trust anybody, they just here to use you. To me friendship means a lot to me, I don’t think I would ever do such thing to my friend, that’s definitely two faced. That is one thing that I hate.
Another quote that got my attention is “only after serious deliberation would I bring the most trusted friends over, exposing them to strange smells, wailing music, and Maman yelling politics grievances into the phone( you’ll never believe what these bastards did today in!)I don’t really blame, if I was her position, I don’t think I would ever bring someone just like that at my house, I had to have a great or strong relationship to that person to invite them at my house in this state. Like I said in the first paragraph about friendships, I don’t think it’s that easy to make friends out there, you never know when they going turn their back on you.
Another part that stands out to me was when she was talking about how they pronounced her name, she feels ashamed. ‘ as she approached the K’s and l’s, I knew the second she slowed down that she had arrived at my name; that she would bludgeon its pronunciation I had already accepted, but I prayed not to be asked in front of everyone else it’s origins, to have utter that word, Iran.” And the quotes still goes “Maman suggested I take on an English name for use at school, and I toyed with Elizabeth.” The first part of the quotes, I kind of understand what she’s going through, that’s how I felt when I moved to America, no one couldn’t pronounce my name right, I was always getting aggravated, and I was felt embarrassed, and through these days, the teachers and some the students still can’t pronounce my name, but it’s not a big deal to me, no more. And to talk about the second quotes, I don’t think she needed to do that, that’s like she‘s trying to hide who she really is, like on my SAT, I read a story just like that about this boy, when he got to college, he decided to change his name, and he didn’t turn out the way he planned it. By changing her name, it’s not really going to change who is she is. So what’s the point of doing it? I kind of understand why she wants to do that, but that‘s not going to change anything. She still going to be the same person, people won’t know, but she would know, you can’t change your identity. You are what you are, just except it. There’s a reason why you’re here on earth, you might not know now, but in the future you will. Trying to hide who you are is not going prove anything, I think it’s going to make you feel worst about yourself, just step up be yourself, I know it must been hard been in her position, but trying hide who you are is just making worst.
Jennifer
I agree with you, how she is struggling between two cultures. I think that’s why to me the first part of the book seem interested, you get to see the position she’s in or what she’s going through. with , those things going , like the move, she did lost herself, she doesn’t know what to do, who to turn to or rely to her, she was confuse, which shown me that she’s a strong person. It’s like I said in my last comments, how she was trying to change her name, because they can’t really pronounce it, and they always ask the origin of it, which she felt uncomfortable. It’s very hard in her, and she’s kind of lost, she doesn’t know what to do, and what’s going on around her. I also like how when you “ I feel like she was able to capture a sense of what some people feel, when they move to a new country holding on to some imaginary world, while trying to merge two cultures together.” Which I totally agree with, that’s kind how I felt when I move to America, I felt confuse, It was hard to adapt to a new culture.
To tell you the truth, I don’t really get her point talking about Immigrants and émigré, and I had the same question in my mind when I was reading, what does it matter whether you’re an immigrant or émigré? I try to put myself in her shoes trying to see the differences she trying to get across, but it’s not working.
Part 1: Part C
In response to Gaelle, the story in which you are referring to is called The Namesake by Jhumpa Lihiri. The main character of the novel is Gogol who goes through an identity crisis in which he aims to find out who he truly is, much like Moaveni. In this case Gogol is confused about if he wants to be labeled as Indian or American. Gogol then proceeds to change his name to Nikhil (Nick). This resembles the emotions that Moaveni has shown throughout the novel thus far. Yet, she did go as far as to change her name to Elizabeth when she was in school. Instead one could say that her so-called pilgrimage back to Iran was her turning point. For Gogol, his turning point was when he decided to change his name. Having a difficult name to say can be embarrassing at times because it is basically like waiting for someone to butcher it up in new situations. Even though the characters are male and female they go through the same struggles but in different ways.
Another topic that was previously talked about in the text was about the difference between an immigrant and an émigré. An émigré is a person who flees their native country for political reasons. While an immigrant is a person who migrates to another country permanently. I can see why Maman refers to herself and her family as émigrés because she did not want to live under the rule of the revolution any longer. The only way that you will see the difference between the two is by searching out background knowledge. Maman is justified in not wanting to be labeled as an immigrant because to her it seems like she an exile from her native home. Even though she does not wish to return to Iran, it feels better to have an option whether or not to return. Hopefully, this helped you guys understand why Maman wishes to be referred to as an émigré and not an immigrant.
In your response Stephanie, you said ‘As a result, she thought that they didn’t have a “sense of what normal behavior between the sexes looked like” because interactions were being dismissed completely.’ When I read this I started thinking about that man in her office. How he came on to her, asking her to be his temporary wife. Page 74 states, “What do you personally, think about that. Might you consider it, were we to make that suggestion? He asked, using the formal plural that in Farsi means “I.” I felt a thousand ants crawling on my skin at once. This! This is what I got, for not flitting away like a nervous schoolgirl?” I felt that, that was very forward of him, just because she’s from America he assumes that she’s easy.
This whole arrangement’s just another way for the government to degrade women. The guy can take the girl, use her, and when he’s done, he can just discard her, like an old rag. Because she’s more American than Iranian she didn’t get up and leave when he started talking to her like a normal Iranian women would do. She has to keep in mind that the two cultures are different, and something that may be normal in America may be offensive for a woman in Iran. Most likely they don’t think about how the girl would feel, because she was put in a very awkward position that made her use her veil as a way to protect herself, and shy away from danger. I also like what she used to explain how she felt. Shows how uncomfortable it was, and how her personal space was being invaded, because she’s different.
I’m not really sure about the women, but I think the guys do what that journalist did. The door’s open for them to do what they want, without having to deal with any consequence. I think that if a woman were to do something like that, they’d be punished in some way. I think whatever outlet, exists it’s there to benefit the men, not the women.
For the émigré, immigrant thing, I did understand what it meant; she explained it in the book. What I’m trying to say, is that I don’t like their tone toward, the whole immigrant thing. She just makes it sound like something bad, like when the grandma said that they didn’t come on boats, but by plane. I don’t like what she’s implying. I’m an immigrant, and I know I didn’t come here by boat. I was clear on the meaning I just don’t like the way it was phrased, because to me it made it sound like they were talking about trash or like it’s degrading.
I do see what you’re saying Gaelle. I think that most people were trying to advance their political views, so friendship’s not really important. I feel like most people can’t be trusted, that they’d be the one to turn you to the authorities, because they think you did something wrong.
Before I even state my argument, my name is Stephany, not Stephanie. Sorry, but the spelling mistakes have always irked me. It seems like your talking to someone else. It's a minor issue, but ehh.
I can see why you wouldn't like the way the tone that she used, but you cannot help that. Certain people have already pre-formulated how they would like to remember their past. In this case Maman chooses to deem this justification appropriate. I am not an immigrant myself, but my parents are.In my childhood I've heard the phrase that "i came to America on a plane, not a boat". You and I both know that this is not the first time that you have heard this common phrase. In Maman's mind she has partially denounced where she has come from. But in another way she still is aware of where she comes from and incorporated it while raising Moaveni. Maman can barely figure out how she would like to be deemed herself, so I don't think that you should take her words to heart as much. In life certain types of people think that just because someone is a so-called "immigrant" they came on a boat. Immigrants, such as yourself,would find it more offensive if someone called you a "boat-person", because if I was called that I would be offended. I think that Maman was just simply stated that she came to American on a plane to quickly dismiss preconceived notions. When I was reading the book I passively read over the quote because I just didn't see the big deal about it.Previous evidence within this post shows that Maman is in a transitional phrase within her life, just like her daughter. As a reader it is our to read in an unbiased manner. Just because you did not like the way Maman phrased her assertion does not mean you should hold a grudge against her for the rest of Lipstick Jihad. Hopefully, you are able to move past this and read the novel with an open mind.
Stephany J.—
Great start, nice depth—both in length and your insightfulness. Quick comment: you are reading a memoir, not a novel. I know you know this is non-fiction, but I just want to make sure we get in the habit of properly referring to genres. But great job investigating ideas presented in the memoir and great questions to your reading group.
Jen—
Also nice depth to begin with—and good job seeing this dichotomy that Moaveni sets up. (Don’t forget to label your posts so I can grade them more easily.)
Gaelle—
You are also presenting engaging and insightful comments on the book, and showing some great personal connection to the work. (Don’t forget to label your posts so I can grade them more easily.)
Anyway—to you all: I am really enjoying your discussion; it is passionate, text-based & engaging. Keep expanding these ideas and hopefully you will cover more topics as the memoir keeps moving on.
Part 2: Part A
The second section of the memoir starts of with the chapter “My Country Is Sick”. This section made me think and further analyze the intentions of Moaveni. As the text continues to unfold itself, she seems to be straying even further from her initial goal. As an outsider looking in Moaveni is still unable to make up her mind at this given point in time. A quote that helped me formulate this assertion was on page 106, “Iranians will never trust you, because you---not the nation---are your own first priority”. As a reader this passage sent off red flags within my head because it promoted exactly what Iran tried to shield the country from. The Iranian culture wanted its residents to stick together because there was strength in numbers. A quote like this would be deemed to be the fault of the western culture for planting thoughts of doubt in the residents of Iran.
I am sure that it has been agreed on the Moaveni embarked on this journey to find out who she really is. Moaveni stresses through the section that she “ felt alienated in America--considered to be from an imagined land of veils, harems, suicide bombers, and wrathful ayatollahs”. The author is not getting the experience that she intended to. Moaveni has moments in which she wonders if she made the right decision after all. One would think that an outsider in America would surely fit in, in their native country. In this case Iran is being far from heartwarming. She is still considered an outsider because she is not been deemed “exceptional” in the eyes of society. When Dariush talked to Moaveni he only managed to put her down for thinking that she was on the level of other Iranians. He continued to lecture he because she “didn’t have to run into bomb shelters, or duck when windows shattered, or call around to see if relatives and friends were alive the morning after…You don’t know what we endured. So don’t show up here and start calling yourself Iranian”. Dariush’s words made Moaveni seem as if she was not even from the Iranian culture. He did not even give her a chance before dismissing her intentions altogether. To the rest of society she did not look she belonged to the rest of the pack because she was considered a “wannabe”. They thought that she did not have the authority to consider herself Iranian because she was raised in America. She was fortunate enough to not have to live through those dangerous situations listed above. Dariush seems to forger that Moaveni had no choice where she was raised for her childhood. That decision was left to her parents. If he had anyone to spout his atrocities at it should be the parents of Moaveni. He should have been interrogating them to figure out why they chose to abandon the country. In my opinion Dariush is a complete jerk. He makes it seem like Iran is the only place where bad things happen. If I was in her situation I would have felt completely degraded. How did you guys respond to this section while reading? Did you passively read over it, or did it make you pause and reflect? Is your opinion the complete opposite---Do you think that Dariush is justified in his assertions?
Part 2 A
I finally made to the second part of the book. the first few chapter shows what was going in her country, the rules they have to respect, the diffferences, one of the people they had problem with was the clerics." My father taught me that clerics were lazy;more specifically, that they were unsuited to run a country because their work kept them in seminaries,sipping tea in robes, and that of languid profession ....".Pg100.But to me, why do I feel there's more to that then their lazy, etc...? I have to look more into that.
As we go on further to that chapter,"Mr.agharzadeh was not the first or last person to call me a foreigner,I burst ito tears at the lunch table.Why do people saying this to me? Well I don't get it either, if both her parents are Iranian, and she was born there, then why was she called a foreigner? some people needs to mind their business sometimes, and as for her if she knows she's a foreigner, she needs to step up her plate, and prove them wrong,if she doesn't step up for herself, who will. I believe the minute she step up, they might listen to her.Those people has no right to do that to her. what kinds of bother me a little bit was when her firend said "Can you see, it's almost a compliment" pg 108.I don't see that as a compliment at all, who in their mind would see that as compliment, to be born a country and then to be called a foreigner,that 's not a compliment.What's worst, in her own country she is seen as a foreigner and on top of that, in another country they see her as " land of veils, harems,suicide bombers." That's a lot of things she has to deal with.If I was in her position , I don't know what I would of done, that's most of been one of the hardest things she must of gone throught, and by the look of it ,It seem like she had a lot to deal with. well moving furhter to the reading, one of the questuon that I had got answer, my questions was , why do peope called her a foreigner? and the answer I got from the book" Don't demand what's not yours, he told me peevishly.You weren't here during the war, when Iraqi warplanes were flying over Tehran.You didn't have to run into bomb shelters, or duck when windows shattered,or call around to see if your relatives and friends were alive, the morning after."so that's the reason they saw her as a foreigner, just because she didn't suffer the way that they did, or she didn't go through what they did,but that's still did not gave them the reason to call her a foreigner, and I definetly agree with what she said to him." Stop being a victim, I hissed back.Do you think you're the first people to deal with war? first of all some people need to stop being selfish, and take a look around them.
Another thing that my attention in this chapter was they started to talk about the stolen houses."two yeas before, four dissident intellectuals had been brutally killed.the ministry of Intelligence, the pubic was now learning, had sent death squads that butchered them in their homes"pg 110.I'm kind of little with this part, who sending those suqads to kill those people and why.Also what are the goverment are saying about this, or maybe the goverment are involved in this. "we have to called 911," I spluttered,grasping about in the dark for the rotary phone." Hah! The police ? Listen to you?"they're already there.Those are the police." so the police are the death squads, but why are they killing people for no reason? I'm really confused with this part.
Also there's this one person in the book, that kind of disturb be is Mr.X.I don't get him, he think his control of Moaveni.For some reason ,I don't trust him, he seem like his just using or taking advantage of her. well to me, his not that closed to Moaveni, for him to be questioning her like that, espcially those types of questions his asking her is so off the limit.He needs to get a hinted that Moaveni is not that cool with him like that. I just don't trust him with Moaveni, like I said before, his just taking advantage of moaveni
Part 2: A
I felt like this first section was more about Azadeh facing the reality. Even though before, she spoke about wanting to be there in the middle of this, while everything’s taking place, I feel like now she’s really seeing everything, and it’s not about what she expected or envisioned. In the first section she kept referring to Iran as the place where she lived as a child, but now that she’s here, it states, “The Iran I had found was spiritually and psychologically wrecked, and it was appalling.” Now she’s experiencing what the others have to experience. Even though she wasn’t there during the revolution she’s still living through the aftermath, by living in Iran. By experiencing what the others are experiencing, I think it helps feel more Iranian, even though others don’t think so.
One of the things that stood out to me as I read was the corruption of the government, and how they have so much power. The people that are supposed to be protecting them are the one hurting them. When Azadeh heard someone being tortured and she suggest that they should call 911, her friend replied “ Hah! The police? Listen to you! They’re already there. Those are the police.” I think that it’s moment like this where Azadeh acts and think more like and American; because no matter how much she tries to push it away, she was raised in America. An Iranian would know that the police are not really to be trusted, because they do as they please. She finally began to realize, just what these people are going through. On page 111, she said “..’unbearable’ ‘unacceptable’—lost their meaning, when everyday I saw the unbearable being borne, the unacceptable being accepted.”I think that it was really hard for her to face this reality that the Iranians have to live through, because she started relying on her friends to do her
job.
I thought that the relationship that she had with Mr. X, the intelligence agent was really weird. Even though he recruited her, he shouldn’t be able to treat her like that. I don’t think it’s right to pressure to release the names of the unnamed sources. I didn’t like the feel of this section. I know I would’ve become paranoid also, thinking that everything I do is probably being watched by someone else.
At times I feel like the country is taking a step forward, even though it’s really tiny. But then she starts talking about how they’re being treated, and I feel like the country will never change, no matter how hard they try. On page 124 it says “Every few months a woman was murdered for dressing immodestly. Sometimes the system staged and managed, the spectacle, as it sis with public lashings.” The government controls so much of what its people can and cannot do. For the election, newspapers are being banned and people are being arrested. This kind of reminds me of election time and Haiti, and how everyone kind of lives in fear because of all the assassination that took place for political reasons.
Part 2: B
I do agree with the fact that Azadeh went on this journey to find herself. Steph, the quote you used about Dariush, when I read it I kind of understood what he was trying to say, because she’s coming here trying to call herself Iranian, by running over there when things are getting chaotic. She was never there when these people had to go through what her mother’s generation went through. She wasn’t there to experience what they experienced, but that’s not what makes a person Iranian, so I felt like he was being unfair. She’s trying to find herself, I think the only way she can do that is to accept that she is both American, and Iranian, but at the same time she’s neither. She has both cultures in her, but it’s not sully instilled for both, so I don’t think she should try focusing on one, and try to imitate the life of other Iranians in order for her to feel like she’s Iranian.
I feel that even though she felt alienated in America, she’s not completely comfortable here either. She has to transition to this new culture with all these rules and unfair expectations for women. Life in Iran is so different from the one that she had in America. So things are not what she expected. She’s also viewed as a foreigner, because she didn’t live through the revolution. The way I see it, I don’t think that her mother really abandoned the country, because the way things were going, it was definitely not going to get any better for her daughter. I just think that Moaveni feels angry that she didn’t have to experience what they experienced, and that she’s calling herself Iranian. But what about the result of the revolution, isn’t she living through it right now with all the other Iranian women?
So, no, I don’t think that Maoveni was justified in the way he reacted to her, trying to find herself. I didn’t really think of bad things happening in other places. I feel like he felt like she betrayed the country by not staying with the rest of them to endure the misery. I didn’t find this important, but I know, it’s the opinion of many others. I also feel like some may be a bit jealous that they dint get the same chances that she got, which is why they keep pointing out everything that’s American about her. I think if I was in her situation I would have felt more angry, rather then degraded, because, it’s not her fault that the country’s in this situation, so he shouldn’t be taking it on her when she’s just trying to find herself.
Part 2: C
I felt like in this section she was acting more like what would be expected from an Iranian woman. The way they’re treated, they’re supposed to be stupid, and frail, and in need of men of everything that’s important. The way the men treat the women, it’s like they’re something that might be broken. The quote that Gaelle used, where she was called a foreigner, I felt like she was being too emotional. I understand that she’s hurt that she’s not being accepted, while she’s trying to fit in with her people, but she doesn’t have to burst into tears, just because of that. I also don’t see how being called a “foreigner”, should be taken as a compliment, when everyone looks, and treats you differently. For the quote " Don't demand what's not yours, he told me peevishly. You weren't here during the war, when Iraqi warplanes were flying over Tehran. You didn't have to run into bomb shelters, or duck when windows shattered, or call around to see if your relatives and friends were alive, the morning after.” I don’t think she was demanding anything that’s not hers. Just because she didn’t experience that it doesn’t make her any less Iranian.
To respond to Stephany question, I didn't read passively to it, well, when I was reading I was getting mad, as you can see I kind of already answer the question on part A, that's kind of the same thing I brought up.I guess we both had a bad reaction towards this part of the book.I don't think it was fair of him, to just come out at her, making her feel bad, she's already feel lost, by putting this in her head, it's going to make her feel more lost or unwanted. Like you said Stephany Dariush is a complete jerk. What he did was unacceptable, he had no right, that was very disrespecful of him. Just because she didn't go through the things that he did, or the other people did, that does not gave them the right to call her a foreigner, like I said before, those people are very selfish, they only think of themselves , and their opinion, they don't think of people opinion. Did he at least gave her a chance to explain herself? No, I don't think so , he just assumed stuff, which I hate when people does that.As you can see, Stephany , your not the only one that was disturb by that part or section of the book. That part got me real angry.
the second part I just posted was part B
Part 2: Part B
Since you guys finally decided to post I guess I can finally wrap this up. This weekend should have been about wrapping up the text in general, but I guess I have to roll with the obstacles that go along with group work.
In response to Jen I feel as though the section pertains to Moaveni discovering her journey. I can see why you believe that she is in the middle of facing reality for what it truly is. Even though she often talked about being in the midst of Iran, Moaveni certainly did not know what she was in for. The more I read the text I could envision the main character trying to discover her identity in such an unknown land. Well, an unknown land to a certain extent. Even though the people looked just like her, they refused to welcome her honorably. One could say that she was the black sheep of the clan. Will society ever be able to appreciate her or will they continue to point out her short-comings?
Did anybody else pick up on how the other characters in the text often teased Moaveni about where she came from ? Often times Reza would mock the author about her Californian mentality. He was basically calling her a “bootleg Iranian”. In other words she was being reduced to an imposter of the culture. At this point I am still surprised that Moaveni is still firmly rooted in Iran. If I was being treated this way I would have went back to California a long time ago. It all just doesn’t make any sense to me. Yet, I wonder if something is going on between Reza and Moaveni. In most scenes within this section he is here. When she lost contact with her friends Reza still stood by her. How would you guys identify identity within the text? Think ahead to when Moaveni has completed her journey and is finally able to properly categorize herself where she truly belongs. Does her personal categorization alter how society views her? Is it even significant for that matter ? In the first section I viewed Moaveni as an independent women who frankly did not care what any one thought of her. The more I read into the text, my perception of her changed. Now I view her as a child who is begging for the approval of her parents. In this case, her parents is a symbol of the Iranian country.
For the thing with the house I think that it’s all the same thing, the government, and the cops, they all do whatever they want to the citizens, to get their points across. So did they just take the house, to do this. When they do things like that they have this control over these people, because they’re so scared. They do these things in public places where they know things will be noticed by the public. I realized that here in this section, even though she’s living in Iran she was still thinking like an American, because everyone else knows that the cops from these to different places don’t represent the same thing. With Mr. X I don’t really like his attitude, and the way he treats her. Like how he calls her, when she doesn’t call and threatens her, and talk to her as if they’re intimate. I think that he feels that the more unsure, and insecure he makes her feel, the more threatened she’ll feel so she won’t stray away from him. I liked the way she made a comparison to a jealous ex boy friend, to describe him, his actions, and this strange hold that he has over her.
Part 3 A
To start with the last part of the book, When Moaveni starts talking about the other women, or ladies, how they act, it kind of disturb me. "Many of the women there were obviously the mistresses of these rich men because they were young, breathtakingly beautiful, and middle class to afford the place otherwise." I bet they just going out with those older man, because they were forced to, or they had no choice, or it's one way to get money, you know how these days girls would do anything for money, and anyways , there older man were allow to date or marry as many women as they can. I have problem with those of people , that won't do anything for themselves." They were taking photos of each other doing erotic legs lofts on the machines." Are you serious, that's a force, you go do the gym to work out, not to be girly, I really hate when people does that, that disturb me"If they broke sweat, it was because they had gone up to the roof to tan, or sat in the sauna after message, their activity of choice." Tha's what's called the defination of lazy. Well that's the life of the rich, that's how they live, we can't really changed anything about it. The way Moaveni starts the last part of the book, with people in the gym, I did not expect that.
When Moaveni said " Every day,I put myself on trial, and ruled myself guilty as an American." I don't know about you guys, when I read that part, I started thinking of Reading Lolita in tehran, when the Book Great Gatsby was put on Trial. When She said that "I put myself on trial"It kind of remind me of the paper I wrote on Nora, Putting Nora on trial.
"Tehran, a city more palpably tense than any other I had ever know, a city that generously gave all of it's ten million residents so many causes for distress, must surely contain places where people cope with the physical manifestations of the strain." Well I don't really know that Tehran like that,but to me what Moaveni is saying make sense to me, What I have read about Teharan so far, brought a lot to mind.Me, taking that I have it worst, but a lot of people in Tehran have no say which is not fair.A lot of people get hurts everyday for no reason, well their might a reason but it's just stupid reason, girls not wearing their veils , or wearing to much make ups.
Part 2: Part C
In the Iranian culture someone has to take the blame for everything wrong going on in the country. In this case, the Americans are the ones who take the blame. Being westernized is portrayed as some sort of distant evil. As an American I can’t help by roll my eyes because the Iranians in the text are just waging their fingers at all things American. I felt as if they were blaming me for brainwashing their youth. Haven’t these people ever heard of teenage rebellion? Hello, as a teenager it is our duty NOT to listen to our parents! The whole phrase “Death to America” was taken completely out of proportion.
I also want to touch on a statement that Jen made about Moaveni bursting out into tears because she was called a foreigner. Ever since Moaveni got to Iran members of society have been making rude and sarcastic remarks because of where she was raised. After a certain amount of time there is only so much a women can take. She must have built up so many emotions regarding these emotions. I don’t think it was so much being called a foreigner that set her off; I think that it was more being excluded from the society of Iran again that further upset her.
Like Gaelle I was also confused by the use of the death squad. I could have sworn that I read that specific part numerous times and I still do not understand it. Were they killing random people because they had stolen houses? Is this all basically an example of government funded killing? If it was for this reason, what purpose could the government ultimately serve?
In the case of Mr.X, I have yet to figure out his character either. I may have a perception about him but I believe that there is more to him than meets the eye. For some reason he seems to be one of those sketchy people who aims to gain the trust of the audience. Yet, it is difficult to put all trust into him because he does not appear to be a legitimate comrade. Gaelle, I just think Mr.X wants to see how far he can push Moaveni. The more inappropriate his comments are the more satisfaction he receives because he is making Moaveni squirm to a certain extent.
Part C
In respond to Jennifer, Instead of the goverment proctecting them, they're the one taking adavantage of the people,what kind of world are we living in today? People are corrupted. If the good guys are the ones that supposed to protect us, now they're the one that's hurting us, whose left to help us. Police, I don't trust them at all,I don't know why, but the police and I don't work.I feel like just because they're the one that's carrying the gun, they think they're the one that's in charge, so they taking advantage of us, because they think they have that rights, which they don't.But Like Jennifer said, everyone knows what kind of peope those cops are, they should know that in the first place, if most of the people know whats kinds of police they have, why don't they all stand up? if they don't stand up for themselves,whose going to stand up for them.In Tehran , people down there has a lot of things to deal with, how can they live with all those rules, and all those other things such as the cops being corrupted.I don't think I could of live like this, the way the Iranian live, it's like they have no control of themselves, whatever the goverment tell thems to do, they have no choice but to follow. The goverment is a big part of their lives, which I think is not a good idea.
Part 3:A
Something else that stood out to me was when she got arrested. These cops pull people over; just by the way they look. When she showed them her pass, and they realized that she was an American reporter they called “Death to America” I thought that it was just immature, whet’s screaming going to do. I don’t see what America has to do with the country’ election. It seemed like they were looking for a reason to take her in. Even though she didn’t say it, but if she did say she was going to vote for someone else they’d take her in. I thought that it was stupid, that she got arrested just because she mentioned that people would be voting for the opponent. I also thought it was weird, how they took them in. It says”…the rear door of my car had been opened and a severe, bearded face appeared in the review mirror. “Drive”, it ordered, from the backseat. At first I didn’t understand what was happening. It’s so different because they didn’t even put them in another car. They just made her drive, without telling her where they were being taken.
In this section she talked about women, and their sense of self. On page179 it says, ‘The regime fed the young people such contradictory messages—women were liberated but legally inferior; women should be educated but subservient; women should have careers but stick to traditional gender roles.” I think it shows that they try to move forward, but then it’s not really happening. These women don’t really know themselves. After having to deal with society, and expectations, there’s nothing there, which makes them feel confused and lost. It says “… women, searching for relationships was, if not a search for self, a search to anchor a self adrift.” Did this section stand out to you guys, and o you feel like these women need men in their life to find themselves?
I noticed that at the end she went back to telling a story about her childhood, which was also what she did in the beginning. On page 243 it says “On a summery night in Manhattan, my Iranian crew of friends assembled at Lincoln center…” I felt that here, it was demonstrating how they brought a piece of Iran to America. I felt like she did kind of find what she was looking for, and may be realized that she didn’t have to be in her homeland to be considered as Iranian. I felt like she had closure. On page 246, it states, “It was spatial. For us, home was not determined by latitudes and longitudes.” Then it goes on to say “Iran had been disfigured and we carried its scrape in our pockets, and when we assembled, we laid them out, and were home.” I think it’s saying that they don’t necessarily need to be in Iran to find their home, a place to belong, that it’s with them, it’s the history, and the experience that they’ve been through.
Part 3 B
Jennifer
That's one of the things that really stood to me to when she got arrested.I did not expect that to happen. yeah, I definetely agree with you said that was immature of them. those people takes things to seriously, she's Iranian too, just because they saw that her pass said American reporter, does not gave them the right to just look pass her, and say " Death to America." What is so bad about America for them to hate it that much.America , is about freedom, every one has a say, unlike in Tehran, there's no freedom,people are not treated equally, for example lete's take women and man, Women has a lot of things they're not allowed to do, while men could, which I think it's not fair at all.instead of been treating equaly,they are been taking advantages of.Like I said, before, I can't see myself there, I feel like I would get killed, or end up in prison, because I would of spoke my mind.
As you go on , You said as if they were looking for reason to arrest her, which, I definetely agree with that, why do I feel like a lot people have problem with Moaveni, or have something against her.to me, they judge her, a lot, through out the book, that's how I saw it. The other things that kind of stood out to me, was when they got into her car, and told her to drive, I got a little scared for her, I was like what was she getting herslef into. You know from the first few chapters,how we learn how the police down there are corrupted , they were the one killing people. That got me scared, I didn't know what was going to happen to her.
Part 3: B
I think this last section relates to the idea of identity, which was asked before by Stephany. This kind of shows you something about women, and Iranians, and those in exile. She talks about how hard it is for them to find their identities and how they go about to find that. While she had to go through experiences, these women fell the need to find a man, because even though their semi-independent they’re still seen as inferior to the men. I don’t think how society views her matters anymore because she found herself. And she feels at peace, because she realized that home is with her, not a specific place.
While reading the text I could see where Steph, coming from about a child looking for her parent’s approval. However by the end of the book I feel like she succeeded in her journey, and she feels like she doesn’t need crutches anymore, so she’s not really looking for approval.
I didn’t really understand why the gym part was there. It showed two different types of life styles. One where she’s made fun of because she doesn’t fit in and another where she feels at home. I noticed how they made the women come to the gym in the morning and the men in the afternoon. Even though the women were by themselves they still had to follow all these rules There’s another section where she was describing a trip on the plane, and how women used to take off their veil, and change and wear make up, but they don’t do it anymore. I guess it shows how they’re getting used to all these rules, and restrictions. Another section that stood out to me was on page 164, it says, “It all seemed so affordable and safe that I felt obliges to get something done.” I thought it was weird how it was normal for everyone to have plastic surgery. As a way to rebel the men got their nose done, so they would look more European. When she was talking about plastic surgery, she made it seem like she was going shopping, like it was an everyday thing. It said “ When I went plastic surgery shopping with Mitra, the waiting rooms were full of Iranian expatriate women, from places like Maryland and London, getting bargain treatments on their trips home to visit family.” This just shows how different things are over there, likes when she was talking about how the paramedics bargain you off to the doctor with the highest bid, and how they don’t really care about your welfare.
I don’t understand what she meant when she said she found herself guilty as an American. What is she trying to say?
well Jennifer, I see where you going with this , how they try to move on, wel it seem like down there, the women would not get the right they deserve, which is not fair. For women to gain the same right , I don't know when that would happen. They don't see women, as important, which is not fair.well as Jennifer, it's seem like they trying to move forward, but we all know , how they view women down there, nothing will change their point of view of women.
and yes definetely this section stood out to me,and as for women needs men in their life to find themselves, please. I hate when people say that.Most of women likes to be independent, well be I like being independent. Most of women, when they have a men, lets' take the womens that their husbands are beating them ,or hitting them 24/7 do you think they find themselves with all those things going on , no , I don't think so. I definetely don't agree with women needs men in their life to find themselves, i judt don't think that 's true
Part 3: C
In response to step, I don’t think it’s just the Iranians. But I think it’s a stretch how they blame the Americans for everything. I definitely agree with these things being taken out of proportion. The more they try to be strict with this generation the more they’re going to rebel.
For the killing part, I thought it was people that they wanted to make an example of. The way they said they took the house, I thought it meant that it was a place that they took just to do this. I thought they were doing it for political reasons.
To what Gaelle said about my comment I think that it’s absurd the way they are treated. I remember I saw this thing on TV where this reporter went in the Middle East and how it’s still like that. I remember a man told the reporter that she should cover up, because seeing her hair was attractive. That’ it would be her fault if she got unwanted attention.
Part 3: Part A
Sorry I couldn't post these final blogs last night. By the time I we got back from dinner it was past midnight. I just got back from New York a couple of minutes ago!
In the final section of Lipsick Jihad Moaveni is being introduced to the elite members of Iranian society in terms of women. The scene begins in a gym setting that made the audience feel as if it were located in Beverly Hills. The various women depicted are portrayed to be so prissy and pampered. These women were easier targets of manipulation from the stand point of their husbands. The reader could view how they fit into the mold of what this specific society expected from females. They appeared to lack much life experience, if any at all. The naivety of these females continued to scream off the page the more I read. “ They exercised with small movements--crossing and uncrossing legs, retouching their make up, and sipping tea”. I don’t know about you guys but this so-called work out does not seem very productive. It was more like a social hour. These women already had a perception of Moaveni, just like Moaveni had a perception about them. “For some reason, they hated” Moaveni because she did not fit the mold by any means. In my eyes, these women were portrayed as trophy wives. It was obvious that these women were in it for the money of the significant others. The country was surely not in tip-top shape, so these women decided to find a way out for themselves. Being at the gym was just a breeding ground for these women to further conspire. To think that these women were in it for love was ridiculous. They were just skilled enough to make it seem so around their husbands. In actually, they were all just a bunch of gold diggers. The author uses this portion of the text to illuminate a distinct line between herself and these very women. There are certain things that Moaveni will not submit to, and these women believe that she is foolish because she will not.
What bothered me while I read was how Moaveni began to blame herself for being different. Relatively speaking, Moaveni was not as different as society portrayed her to be. Yet, they kept her on the outside of the circle because she did not necessarily deserve to be in Iran “acting” like she cared. Even though she did not suffer like the rest of her people; that did not mean that she did not feel remorse for what they had to go through. These people will not even give her the chance to hear her out entirely. At this point Moaveni is in a vulnerable state of mind. Her subconscious is playing trick on her more and more each day to plant little seeds of doubt. By believing her subconscious she is only playing in to the hands of the members of society who wished that she went back to California already. Currently, Moaveni’s journey appears to be paused. It is up to her whether she wants to stop it completely or to keep going.
Part 3: Part B
Well, like both of you guys I also thought that the comment about “Death to America” was taken out context. Jen, you have to think of these men screaming obscenities as children. Even though they know they can’t get their way, they will kick and scream just to make in scene. The cop who chose to say this obviously had nothing to with his time. Could one say that they were profiling her to a certain extent ? I did not see any valid reason to pull her over in the first place. For some reason I think that the officers already knew of Moaveni and her so-called mission. Pulling Moaveni over could have been their idea of fun for the night---no matter how wrong that sounds. The job of police officers is to be generally responsible for apprehending criminals, maintaining public order, preventing and detecting crime. In this case, these officers were the very people who were committing the crimes. In section two the audience was able to see how corrupt the police officers in Iran already were with the house beating. I also wondered who would bring justice to this country if the police officers couldn’t assist with taking some of the burden off of the citizens. Like Gaelle I am also a bit weary when it comes to officers. In my time at Malden High School there have been officers who walk around the school and think that they run the place. Just because they have a gym and wear a dinky uniform, they think it gives them the right to talk to any student however they want to. From my experience, these people barely know me to go around and treat me like a bad kid because of the way I walk or dress. The whole situation just sickens me. In Iran the government and police officers tend to all be intertwined in some way. For that reason it just gives me more reason to not trust what the Iranian government states. From the beginning of “Lipstick Jihad” the government indulged in this somewhat obsessive behavior regarding women to protect them from the evils of the world. As I reach the end of the memoir I believe that most of the evils are taking place within Iran. I thought that by the end of this I would be able to understand what the thought process of the Iranian government officials were. Now, I am left with a disturbed feeling in the pit of my stomach.
Part 3: Part C
I’d also like to draw some light onto a quite that Jennifer previously referenced. It is the part when Moaveni is “describing a trip on the plane, and how women used to take off their veil, and change and wear make up, but they don’t do it anymore.”. I think that the reason why these women choose not to partake in this anymore is because they probably don’t have a choice. It is hard to believe that out of the entire plane that no one would transform herself into the women that she truly wanted to be. The whole idea of it seemed unnatural. If you had the choice to finally have the freedom to look as you pleased, wouldn’t you take the chance? On the other hand, if these women truly continued to follow the rules and regulations of the Iranian culture---that is truly a shocker. I could be because that these women have became who the country had sculpted them to be. The women that they often yearned to be was probably long gone by now. I’d also like to reference your statement about plastic surgery. In case you have forgotten, Moaveni was born and raised in California. California is known for its competent plastic surgeons who seems to work wonders with a scalpel. I doubt that plastic surgery is much of a big deal to her because back home it was basically on every corner. Whether it was an office for a plastic surgeon or someone who previously got work done. In conclusion, I just don’t like who these women are so submissive. I wish that they would just fight a little harder for what they believed in, instead of letting Moaveni take the fall for it. I am almost positive that Moaveni got what she wanted by the end of her journey. For the women in this society, their journey is just beginning.
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